Why doesnt BlenderBIM have Rebar ?
If this is a real BIM why doesn't have the option to generate Rebar ? i've seldomly seen any concrete without rebar, how do others that also use BlenderBIM in AEC generate and quantify rebar from their projects ? Good BIM includes structural elements and can quantify it... So you don't make a project with concrete and forget about rebar, hehehe... The video where it shows you how to make rebar with sverchok is just an alternative, hence its been forgotten in BlenderBIM.
BIM is supposed to be a full composition of structural and representative elements of an AEC project.
I am sorry if don't have the light of knowledge in me about this subject.
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There's no parametric tool currently, but you can create a profile based type, and assign it to
IfcReinforcingBarType....
Swept disks is also tantalizingly close, as an option, as well: https://github.com/IfcOpenShell/IfcOpenShell/issues/3496
With Native-IFC support with FreeCAD BIM/Arch, anyone tried to use Rebar/Reinforcement tools in FreeCAD to work with BlenderBIM?
https://wiki.freecad.org/Arch_Workbench
https://wiki.freecad.org/BIM_Workbench
https://wiki.freecad.org/Reinforcement_Workbench
Ive tried using FreeCAD before, only thing is that its rendering honestly is bad, and i tried continuing with Blender, but Blender lacks a lot of Architecture specific interface ease. I have not brought in any rebar from FreeCAD yet but like i said: im trying to stay away from jumping around to different software Applications, still not one better than those two private enterprise softwares we all know...
thank you, i will try working with the
IfcReinforcingBarTypemeanwhile. But i really think its not a real BIM until one day when it has all features needed for an Architect, like i said sverchok is covering all lacks of BlenderBIM, my point of view is that it shouldn't be like that. Also CAD sketcher is not that great.Blender is a universal plattform that can shelter multiple addon applications, so its product is a blend of applications, i am aware that its opensource, but not saying the thruth about its funcionality and lack of ease in the workflow would make so many of us feel even more frustrated.
FreeCAD and IfcOpenShell (BlenderBIM used) has common 3D engine. Maybe there should be effort where development / code could be shared and speed up both development hopefully ?
@Omeyotzin127 What do you think the solution could be?
There is currently nothing developed for modeling rebar easily. In theory, the tools are there to do basic, highly manual rebar modeling, but it is nothing more than a start and insufficient for anything practical.
Both FreeCAD and BBIM are using IfcOpenShell and IFC natively, so if we develop rebar modeling tools for one in native IFC, it'll automatically be shared with the other (apart from creating a UI). For example, FreeCAD gets an automatic standard case door generator for free :)
If you'd like to help, the best way is to:
would be good
Honestly, i dont code, but if i could contribute in that way i would, my contribution is saying the thruth about the way it works for me, im an architect in Mexico (just for background). I can donate no problem, but when the Addon works right for architects.
What i think could be the solution is staying away from developing amenities for compatibilty between different applications, focusing on making a real functional BIM is better than instead sharing files between different software. For example they are developing making smart dxf to svg files, what is the good of this if the BIM Addon doesnt even compete with what all Architects need ? theres a saying for this:
"Jack of all trades, master of none".
I think you'll find that the development is heavily influenced by real world usecases. Almost everything developed is to solve a commercial problem that one or more users are facing. The most likely reason there isn't a rebar modeling tool (yet) is that the percentage of users who need it are very small, so given limited developer resource we haven't tackled it yet.
This can be solved by either increasing developer resources (writing code, or funding), or by filing bug reports (so we get more accurate ideas about demand so we know where to allocate resources). There is already an existing bug report so I'd recommend adding a comment there, and after than helping contribute funding. $5 or $10 a month makes a big difference and adds up. We are hoping to hire another part time developer by the end of this year.
I'd also like to say that the majority of BIM models do not contain any rebar modeling at all on commercial projects. It's only limited to the structural discipline (1 out of an average of 5-10 other models), and even then there are limited reasons why rebar is modeled. If it is modeled at all, it'll also happen during much later project phases, so most design development models will never contain rebar.
Most of the time for quantity take-off purposes, using the
ReinforcementVolumeRatioproperty is sufficient to know how much rebar is inside the concrete. This is typically shown on a schedule on a sheet as well.The exact rebar details are also typically 2D annotated. It's not critical to model it all in 3D. Some jobs do benefit greatly from 3D rebar, but it's not very common.
The solution is to improve the tool, so we can get more funding?
Ok, i understand a lot of "designers" don't use it, but architects do need it. My way of looking at this is that there a lot of people who upload videos related to BlenderBIM usage and modeling, and i can say that 95% of those videos are just 3D modeling with BIM (masses, volumes), but they are not using BIM for what BIM is intended for... BIM is intended for modeling realistic characteristics where Materials and Elements are the main Relevance of the model.
Isn't it true that most call it BIM because it composes volumes called "walls", it composes volumes called "doors, windows, etc..", and this is the way they draw buildings and houses?. But BIM is about scheduling, BIM is about materials, quantities and sometimes physics when it comes to structural analysis, BIM is not about doing 3d modeling only, you dont need to use "BIM" to model anything that people model in those videos.
"If you cannnot quantify all materials (EVERYTHING) in a BIM model then its just a partial project". So this is still more like a 3D volumetric sketcher.
Composite columns are very common and they have rebar in their sleeves.
You can quantify all materials - on our projects we most commonly use the
ReinforcementVolumeRatioproperty for this rather than the overhead of modeling in 3D. This isn't specific to BBIM, most structural modelers (at least here in Australia) won't do 3D rebar unless there is no alternative.If you're looking for the definition of BIM, this is defined in ISO 16739-1, which is implemented by the BlenderBIM Add-on. If you're looking for capabilities more than 3D modeling, the features are demonstrated here:
Yeah, maybe in your country rebar is not relevant, in Mexico we use rebar and concrete in 85 % of all new buldings, homes, etc. Anyway, maybe its not really important, due to that we all may be using the wrong building construction system over here. I do know you do use rebar in all weight bearing slabs.
I think you might be misunderstanding. We use rebar, we simply don't model it in 3D. We may model it in 2D, or we may simply have a non-geometric element with properties and relationships attached to it. Apart from the 3D modeling tools, which we're missing, we can do 2D rebar or non-geometric rebar data already in BBIM.
Thank you for your patience Dion, i wish i had the knowledge to compose a video related to rebar in the way of blender and its current resources... Best regards.
i know funding is meant to improve it, but theres no funding for this element. Thank you.
I've made an attempt with FreeCAD see https://community.osarch.org/discussion/2055/from-freecad-to-blenderbim-italian-house
The Reiforcement workbench it's a very good starting point and seems to do what it promises, but i've found that is at a basic level to achieve a deliverable reinforcement ifc model.
Of course my words depends on the Italian (European?) way of concrete designing, where the structural engineer is responsible to provide the construction detailing of the reinforcement.
From January the first 2025, in Italy BIM Ifc model will be mandatory for every public construction project over 1e+06 €. (so typically the structure cost will be 400 thousands €). I'm not experienced and skilled in BIM modeling, only two times i've created the 3Dmodel at Level of developement "C", and as @moult said I've modeled only concrete structure without reinforcement detailing (the rebar drawings were made via 2D cad as usual).
There is some debate between small engineering firms about what will be the future with BIM modeling, personally I'm scared that public stakeholder will ask everything so also IFC rebar reinforcement will be mandatory. Typically in Italy engineering firms has 1,5 employer (including the boss!) so, apart from the trouble with learning the new metodology and a new software tool, there will be problem with the epensese' increase in software licensing.
From my point of view, you will not necessarily need reinforcement models to start and work with Bim workflows.
Most times it'll be an exchange of building models and informations.
In the last years bearly 1 or 2 BIM Pro asked for reinforcement models and didn't want to check them in the end.
For sure this will change in the future and other may use them rightnow, That's just my experience...
Not to add much into the discussion but I just want to say that for large civil works projects reinforcement IFCs are absolutely being used right now. For bespoke, irregular, non-standard concrete forms - they are a must have, in my opinion. These models are not just for reference, they are provided as design information, and used and seen by a huge range of disciplines on the projects.
Whether or not BBIM needs to build itself into a powerful rebar modeller (ala Tekla) is up for debate though. I'm not a rebar designer/modeller, but I can't imagine it is overly simple. Easier to build the more basic and common parts first and then use those to build more complex systems. I'm still not 100% convinced that the slightly restricted customizability of Blender is enough to replace proprietary software in all cases, but now I'm waffling.
That's very interesting! In germany i've heard of very few projects where they used reinforcement IFCs as of now in infrastructure because of the complexer geometries.
So we'll hopefully look into a brighter future!
Personally i wouldn't work anymore with 2D based workflows. Espescially for reinforcement plans, but this is an old discussion ;)
I hear a lot about rebar and I know how hard it is to draw rebar with 2D CAD. On the other hand, should we model it into BIM? It is used in construction BIM, so it is useful in bidding and construction, but not in maintenance management for equipment replacement. Especially in terms of geometry. It might be used for computational analysis of earthquake resistance. I just don't see modeling rebar geometry as a higher priority than life cycle BIM and IoT utilization.
Is ROI a term you would use at this time?
It's crazy the boldness of someone who comes and demands things, without understanding how this project works in the first place, how it's financed and developed.
Look, friends, the matter is very simple: at the moment there are not enough resources to cover yet this development area. Plain and simple.
If you want things to speed up, create issues (while using a friendly tone - there are people here dedicating many hours every week to support this project and you come hitting with the fist on the table like you paid a $3k/yearly license and the product you paid for does not deliver upon your expectations), learn to code, or start contributing financially. Because if you work with IFC, you will use this tool guaranteed at some point. By contributing you help speed things up.
Regarding reinforcement in IFC models, what I can tell you is that in Norway, MOST of the projects require this. My large infrastructure project has a reinforcement model for every concrete structure, no matter how small. I think this will become the norm globally sooner rather than later, either you like it or not :) All building projects I see around also have reinforcement models.
I can tell you, personally I would love to see better tools in BBIM that support this, but at the same time, I also understand that resources must be allocated where they can make the biggest impact, namely where most users are, and what MOST users need, not a random guy from Norway.
An emulation to the Tekla Structures approach would be crazy, or maybe Allplan. I'm quite sure both beat hands down Revit when it comes to reinforcement.
OK , i understand you would also like rebar... so, are you pushing back on funding these kind of necessities?
I don't have the 3k you are talking about, architects in Mexico (me) make $200-300 USD a week only and thats the reason most use cracked software which i dislike.
I trust the potential of this project, i believe in it.
@condur is our second highest sponsor, being a corporate sponsor who has donated 4,310USD so far. He is responsible of ~15% of our total raised funding on OpenCollective. We are incredibly thankful of his donations, and without him, would not be able to sponsor development the way we do currently. The entire community is benefitting.
I think we all agree 3D rebar modeling would be a great feature to have. What is holding it back is the urgency to which it is needed, and the limited resources we have. The general approach to resolve this is to:
Once you've considered all three options, the next most productive thing to do is to... repeat the three options! Explore the software's capabilities, of which there is a lot, and explore its shortcomings, of which there is also a lot! Help us triage, feedback, test, and push it to its limits continuously :)
Hey everyone, I think we may be reacting to tone of the original message, I bristled a little when I read it too however, I reminded myself this forum is in English and to most of the members it may be a second language. The idea was fine, the delivery not so much. This project is Free and Open-Source software, people donate their time and energy to make an alternative to the mainstream, lets do that with respect and a sense of humour, give what you can, whether that is a little money, a good idea, some coding or just a kind word.
Look, I understand the economy is not great where you live, but it is not fair to just show up and demand things like someone who is entitled to it. That's how I interpreted your replies at least. Sorry for being too harsh maybe, but what I try to do is to remind everyone that we should be grateful in the first place, and then try to do anything else we can.
No matter where you are in the world, I think anyone can afford a $5 monthly contribution. Although symbolic, it adds up.
On top of that, being friendly, and contributing in other ways like: reporting bugs, and writing documentation, there are many ways you can do it.
Let's not forget one thing here: we are few, and we are a family. We are the weird ones in AEC, the ones making sacrifices to try to change this dinosaur-old thinking industry, while everyone else marches in the direction dictated by the big vendors.
Let's be friends, and do our best.
P.S. You have no idea how much time, sweat and passion Dion has invested so far and keeps doing that, so let's respect that. On top of Thomas creating IfcOpenShell we are incredibly indebted to him for having this tool in the first place, at the development state it is today.
So, Dion and Thomas, one more time, thank you for all the sacrifices you make daily for the built environment!
I demanded something? Have you read the title of my post ? it's a plain question... it says: "Why doesn't BlenderBIM have rebar? I guess you own a right for you money, but its getting aggressive in here for normal people like me. Did i hurt your feelings because i talk about rebar and your business doesn't include rebar in their projects when made with Blender? i mean you can all kick me out of here, but im telling you it was just a plain question and yall react like im being rude...
I feel like some are telling me: "don't tell me this about my BIM" "if it doesn't have it nobody needs it" "shut up kid, youre not a chairman like me with your $10 bucks".
All this for missing rebar question... yall code, but yall don't take questions politely.
I didn't get any respect for my donations, it was just not enough. You keep telling me to donate when i already did, what is wrong...??
Goodbye people.