Another potential partner organization: CITA BIM Group (they just followed us on Twitter) ... we don't really have a list of potential partners. @theoryshaw how about we organize a chat specifically to talk generically about organizational structures - not to choose one but to discuss their advantages / disadvantages? How many would like that chat? I think we had a really interesting talk the other day and one issue I'd like to explore more is how we make sure that some issues have very clear decisions structures (for exampel distribution of funds needs to be a robust process everyone understand and respects) and some issues have more fluid ways of working, and many projects are just none of our business - they're just our friends. One thing I got our of the discussion is that it would be good to clearly define the boundaries of any formal committee like structure to some specific areas. I'm pretty sure we all agree on what those areas would be - but the discussion is still important.
Thank you Duncan and everyone for all of your work on this. It is so great to see this organization come into being and developing over the last year!
Sorry to start this thread and then disappear. I have been working on a tangentially relevant issue converting my business to a worker owned cooperative https://www.regenerativedesigngroup.com/worker-owned/ which I am excited to say has happened but still needs a lot of work.
I would be excited to continue to be a part of this conversation unfortunately I am a bit overwhelmed at the moment and can not take on any more commitments.
@duncan great to see! CFD for wind analysis in structures is starting to be feasible nowadays.
We are also working in Aether Engineering in a Structural Wind Analysis Implementation, I think soon we will have something worthwhile to show. So, yes they could be a potential partner firm
@Moult , we would like to make a donation to the OpenSourceBIM with 501 c. Is there a way to avoid the 10% fee? we can send check or credit card. thanks
Ping @duncan , @theoryshaw , @Moult - for our next monthly meeting, do you think it would possible for (a) knowledgable individual(s) amongs the community to :
Prepare a quick presentation on organisational structures/platforms that could work for OSArch ?
Draft a proposal regarding the funding strategies & allocation of funds & finance management.
This would ensure we understand what the implications are , discuss the pros/cons, and lead us to take a collective decision there and then on how to proceed?
Given that we're about to tackle a new project: 4D/5D with IFC - which @Moult and I will be co-leading - I am personally very eager to see this happen, in order to get some sponsors on board for the said project once we have a solid proof of concept to present.
@EddieHe can I ask is this just a personal donation or as part of/on behalf of some larger group?
@Moult I've added OpenSourceBIM to the donations page, but as you say they have no direct way to receive funding. You might want to get them to add you to the https://github.com/orgs/opensourceBIM/people page.
I have no tried to organize the thoughts from this thread on the wiki. It is presumable colored by my personal views, but not on purpose (good suggestion from @CadGiru )
The conference on everything related to governance, collaboration, legal and economics within the scope of FOSS.
Join us for three days of discussion and learning about non-technical aspects of open source development. Topics include open source project leadership best practices, community management, open source project metrics, open source strategy for enterprise, adopting open source collaboration in corporations, legal matters when dealing with open source and many more.
I have created an Team on LiberaPay. Any one who has some fixed expenses please let me know so we can add you to that team. It is for reimbursing costs - not for covering your time. Small steps. I would like to hear from you @dimitar so you can be added. https://liberapay.com/OSArch/
Feel free to comment on the text and see if it aligns with your vision for OSArch at this stage.
@duncan I like the nice summary, and yes would like to be added. The domain costs 15.54 GBP per year. I haven't gotten domain privacy and i probably should, which would cost extra 21.60 GBP per year
@dimitar said: @duncan I like the nice summary, and yes would like to be added. The domain costs 15.54 GBP per year. I haven't gotten domain privacy and i probably should, which would cost extra 21.60 GBP per year
The link is fixed, thanks. I've send you a DM on the forum.
@Moult@aothms what are your plans for https://opencollective.com/opensourcebim ? If you're not intending to use it exclusively for IfcOpenShell / BlenderBIM then it would be a useful mechanism for OSArch to begin accepting funds. Of course we could agree on a budget first which earmarks the current donations for your projects.
Actually what about https://github.com/opensourceBIM ? @aothms you've been active there. León is there. Should we investigate bringing new life to that group?
Just putting my cards totally on the table here ... I'd rather we (OSArch) bring our resources into an existing organization than reinvent things.
I have no current plans for the OpenSourceBIM OpenCollective account. I personally think its a great idea to turn it into a funds pool for any and all projects on the software directory. Naturally, we need to agree on a way to distribute funds in a way that we all agree upon (e.g. we don't want project X to be collecting funding through there, then suddenly project Y claims it) but I think we can do this in a relatively informal way to begin with, and slowly formalise it as it matures into a system.
Naturally, this is only my opinion and I am only a recent contributor, so @aothms is really in control of this :)
If OpenSourceBIM is already a registered organisation, then happy for OSArch to be "under" OpenSourceBIM. It's much less work than starting a whole new organisation.
Also pinging @agviegas and @tomvandig who have expressed potential interest in sharing a "legal entity" so we can focus on the code :D
My only plan for OpenSourceBIM OpenCollective is to help it fund conferences where we and industry can meet. I don't have high hopes to be honest to result in a sustainable income. That's the downside of living in high-income countries. So I think we should use it for incidental things like conferences and meetups and then try to siphon the money to geographic areas where it can make the most impact.
Personally I do notice that my consultancy projects are shifting a bit away from IfcOpenShell to the neighbouring projects, like https://github.com/AECgeeks/ifc-pipeline and https://github.com/opensourceBIM/voxelization_toolkit So that is something we also have to keep in mind. Maybe it's good, but there are also some pretty fundamental huge tasks in IfcOpenShell that need work.
Actually what about https://github.com/opensourceBIM ? @aothms you've been active there. León is there. Should we investigate bringing new life to that group?
I'd rather we (OSArch) bring our resources into an existing organization than reinvent things.
It's much less work than starting a whole new organisation.
But, but, it wasn't work at all right to set it up?
To me the following two entities still make sense: A narrow focus BIM funding group where we do actual development/projects. And a much broader ARCH group that doesn't do development, but more evangelization and funding others. I think this kind of choice might elicit more donations also net positively, for example a development company that uses one of our software libraries might not be interested in funding general foss advocacy and conversely the osarch message might appeal to a more general group of people more in terms of charitable donations. I think it might be good to keep these separate. This is purely a marketing question and I think the clearer the focus the better. And there can be conversation and funds going back and forth between these two entities.
@Moult said:
Also pinging @agviegas and @tomvandig who have expressed potential interest in sharing a "legal entity" so we can focus on the code :D
Yeap, we're up to that. Spending the money for specific events and meetups sounds great. In my opinion, the aim of such collaboration shouldn't be making enough money to pay salaries, but making this whole ecosystem more visible and relevant, thus convincing more people and companies to join us.
Can we make a short list of things we'd like to spend money on if we had the money? Perhaps if we started agreeing on a financial target, we could then use it as a goal and motivation to really start a funding drive, a collective funding platform, etc. Size doesn't matter, it's about agreeing to fund a thing, and achieving it.
Here are some ideas in no particular order or preference:
Fund an annual physical conference (which may include venue, AV equipment, or flights, or accommodation, or catering) - this can range from very cheap to very, very expensive depending on how much is covered.
Fund a distributed physical hackathon (may include catering, to sponsored 1-2 days off work per participant, e.g. for a Thu / Fri / Sat / Sun hackathon) - this could range from 100USD for catering, to 500USD for days off. Perhaps firms could also sponsor a "day of work" for participants.
Fund hardware (including server fees, domain / SaaS fees, developer computers, robotics for CAM dev, Macs for MacOS support) - this could range from 10USD for domains, 50USD monthly for servers, to 1000USD for computers, and higher for robots)
Fund software (proprietary software for testing and integration purposes, not just simpler design software but especially proprietary manufacturing software which is a bit nasty)
Fund merchandise (including promotional T-shirts we can give out and spread the word, mugs, stickers) - this could be a ~300 USD.
Fund developer salaries (may include part time, 1 day a week, up to full time salaries, or partial salaries e.g. Yorik's crowdfunded salary goal)
Fund ads (I guess it's a possibility. But eh.)
Fund bug bounties
Fund our own equivalent of GSoC for students programme (a stipend, basically)
Thoughts? Shall we go for a small thing ~100USD and then work our way up to getting funding for ~1000USD? Are my numbers completely wrong (yes, they are)? Did I miss a bunch of things we could spend funds on? :)
@Moult said:
Can we make a short list of things we'd like to spend money on if we had the money? Perhaps if we started agreeing on a financial target, we could then use it as a goal and motivation to really start a funding drive, a collective funding platform, etc. Size doesn't matter, it's about agreeing to fund a thing, and achieving it.
What about money to offer "bounties" to address specific issues or bugs in FLOSS projects related to AEC. Like ArchWB bug list in the FreeCAD Bugtracker.
Also, funding for students projects related with FLOSS. Like graduation thesis, or a small version of GSoC for CAD projects.
Comments
Another potential partner organization: CITA BIM Group (they just followed us on Twitter) ... we don't really have a list of potential partners.
@theoryshaw how about we organize a chat specifically to talk generically about organizational structures - not to choose one but to discuss their advantages / disadvantages? How many would like that chat? I think we had a really interesting talk the other day and one issue I'd like to explore more is how we make sure that some issues have very clear decisions structures (for exampel distribution of funds needs to be a robust process everyone understand and respects) and some issues have more fluid ways of working, and many projects are just none of our business - they're just our friends. One thing I got our of the discussion is that it would be good to clearly define the boundaries of any formal committee like structure to some specific areas. I'm pretty sure we all agree on what those areas would be - but the discussion is still important.
Thank you Duncan and everyone for all of your work on this. It is so great to see this organization come into being and developing over the last year!
Sorry to start this thread and then disappear. I have been working on a tangentially relevant issue converting my business to a worker owned cooperative https://www.regenerativedesigngroup.com/worker-owned/ which I am excited to say has happened but still needs a lot of work.
I would be excited to continue to be a part of this conversation unfortunately I am a bit overwhelmed at the moment and can not take on any more commitments.
@baswein awesome news and congrats. I hope we hear from you about how it goes.
@duncan : I would like to have that chat, count me in
@baswein : great to see!
Here is a German based fund for public interest FOSS
https://prototypefund.de/projects/?filter=topics
Another potential partner firm:
https://engys.com/products @Jesusbill , I'm thinking you might know them?
Nope, not really. They are in the Mechanical/Automotive Industry. Not sure it can be a fit for OSArch to be honest.
It's used in Rambøll centre of excellence advanced simulations https://ramboll.com/digital-solutions/buildings/cfd-technology
@duncan great to see! CFD for wind analysis in structures is starting to be feasible nowadays.
We are also working in Aether Engineering in a Structural Wind Analysis Implementation, I think soon we will have something worthwhile to show. So, yes they could be a potential partner firm
@Moult , we would like to make a donation to the OpenSourceBIM with 501 c. Is there a way to avoid the 10% fee? we can send check or credit card. thanks
@EddieHe unfortunately I'm not aware of any. If you'd like to donate directly to an individual developer, you can use either https://liberapay.com/dionmoult for myself or https://github.com/sponsors/aothms for Thomas but they are not 501c I believe, though you do avoid the 10% fee.
Ping @duncan , @theoryshaw , @Moult - for our next monthly meeting, do you think it would possible for (a) knowledgable individual(s) amongs the community to :
This would ensure we understand what the implications are , discuss the pros/cons, and lead us to take a collective decision there and then on how to proceed?
Given that we're about to tackle a new project: 4D/5D with IFC - which @Moult and I will be co-leading - I am personally very eager to see this happen, in order to get some sponsors on board for the said project once we have a solid proof of concept to present.
@EddieHe I suggest you take up Dion Moults suggestion of donating to one of them. Otherwise you can look through our page listing where you can donate https://wiki.osarch.org/index.php?title=Donation_Directory
@EddieHe can I ask is this just a personal donation or as part of/on behalf of some larger group?
@Moult I've added OpenSourceBIM to the donations page, but as you say they have no direct way to receive funding. You might want to get them to add you to the https://github.com/orgs/opensourceBIM/people page.
@Moult @duncan . thanks. we will use the liberapay approach. it is a personal donation.
@duncan I believe I'm already on https://github.com/orgs/opensourceBIM/people - but I think he is referring to https://opencollective.com/opensourcebim
I have no tried to organize the thoughts from this thread on the wiki. It is presumable colored by my personal views, but not on purpose (good suggestion from @CadGiru )
Please start by commenting on the first section on assumptions.
https://wiki.osarch.org/index.php?title=Organization#Assumptions
Found this great resource: https://foss-backstage.de/
... all the sessions are recorded and available https://foss-backstage.de/schedule?day=2021-02-10
Naturally I've signed up for their newsletter
Hi @duncan in a similar vein nten.org provided some helpful resources for a project i was affiliated to some years back. https://www.nten.org/equity-guide-for-nonprofit-technology/funding-for-nonprofit-technology/ as an example
I have created an Team on LiberaPay. Any one who has some fixed expenses please let me know so we can add you to that team. It is for reimbursing costs - not for covering your time. Small steps. I would like to hear from you @dimitar so you can be added.
https://liberapay.com/OSArch/
Feel free to comment on the text and see if it aligns with your vision for OSArch at this stage.
@duncan I like the nice summary, and yes would like to be added. The domain costs 15.54 GBP per year. I haven't gotten domain privacy and i probably should, which would cost extra 21.60 GBP per year
just noticed that the osarch.org link doesn't work on the librepay site
The link is fixed, thanks. I've send you a DM on the forum.
@Moult @aothms what are your plans for https://opencollective.com/opensourcebim ? If you're not intending to use it exclusively for IfcOpenShell / BlenderBIM then it would be a useful mechanism for OSArch to begin accepting funds. Of course we could agree on a budget first which earmarks the current donations for your projects.
Actually what about https://github.com/opensourceBIM ? @aothms you've been active there. León is there. Should we investigate bringing new life to that group?
Just putting my cards totally on the table here ... I'd rather we (OSArch) bring our resources into an existing organization than reinvent things.
I have no current plans for the OpenSourceBIM OpenCollective account. I personally think its a great idea to turn it into a funds pool for any and all projects on the software directory. Naturally, we need to agree on a way to distribute funds in a way that we all agree upon (e.g. we don't want project X to be collecting funding through there, then suddenly project Y claims it) but I think we can do this in a relatively informal way to begin with, and slowly formalise it as it matures into a system.
Naturally, this is only my opinion and I am only a recent contributor, so @aothms is really in control of this :)
If OpenSourceBIM is already a registered organisation, then happy for OSArch to be "under" OpenSourceBIM. It's much less work than starting a whole new organisation.
Also pinging @agviegas and @tomvandig who have expressed potential interest in sharing a "legal entity" so we can focus on the code :D
I'm open to any possible way to arrange this.
My only plan for OpenSourceBIM OpenCollective is to help it fund conferences where we and industry can meet. I don't have high hopes to be honest to result in a sustainable income. That's the downside of living in high-income countries. So I think we should use it for incidental things like conferences and meetups and then try to siphon the money to geographic areas where it can make the most impact.
Personally I do notice that my consultancy projects are shifting a bit away from IfcOpenShell to the neighbouring projects, like https://github.com/AECgeeks/ifc-pipeline and https://github.com/opensourceBIM/voxelization_toolkit So that is something we also have to keep in mind. Maybe it's good, but there are also some pretty fundamental huge tasks in IfcOpenShell that need work.
That was indeed also part of the plan. Similarly we also own http://opensourcebim.org/
But, but, it wasn't work at all right to set it up?
To me the following two entities still make sense: A narrow focus BIM funding group where we do actual development/projects. And a much broader ARCH group that doesn't do development, but more evangelization and funding others. I think this kind of choice might elicit more donations also net positively, for example a development company that uses one of our software libraries might not be interested in funding general foss advocacy and conversely the osarch message might appeal to a more general group of people more in terms of charitable donations. I think it might be good to keep these separate. This is purely a marketing question and I think the clearer the focus the better. And there can be conversation and funds going back and forth between these two entities.
Yeap, we're up to that. Spending the money for specific events and meetups sounds great. In my opinion, the aim of such collaboration shouldn't be making enough money to pay salaries, but making this whole ecosystem more visible and relevant, thus convincing more people and companies to join us.
Can we make a short list of things we'd like to spend money on if we had the money? Perhaps if we started agreeing on a financial target, we could then use it as a goal and motivation to really start a funding drive, a collective funding platform, etc. Size doesn't matter, it's about agreeing to fund a thing, and achieving it.
Here are some ideas in no particular order or preference:
Thoughts? Shall we go for a small thing ~100USD and then work our way up to getting funding for ~1000USD? Are my numbers completely wrong (yes, they are)? Did I miss a bunch of things we could spend funds on? :)
What about money to offer "bounties" to address specific issues or bugs in FLOSS projects related to AEC. Like ArchWB bug list in the FreeCAD Bugtracker.
Also, funding for students projects related with FLOSS. Like graduation thesis, or a small version of GSoC for CAD projects.
@bitacovir nice - added them to the list.