OpenBIM in The Netherlands

duncanduncan
in General

Hi @Coen I just wanted a thread we could dedicate to what you started chatting to @Nigel about with use of OpenBIM & IFC and what sounds like a specific IDS for a housing corp. Am I right that The Netherlands are quite good at OpenBIM and there is good government support? I know quite a few OpenBIM software initiatives have come out of public funded projects. So please, tell me more.

Tagged:
Nigel

Comments

  • CoenCoen
    edited February 2022

    Am I right that The Netherlands are quite good at OpenBIM and there is good government support?

    Really depends on the company or organisation, there is little to no government support at all. Almost all iniatives are organized by the industry itself. However the government kickstarted it around 2015 with this document:

    https://www.rijksvastgoedbedrijf.nl/expertise-en-diensten/building-information-modelling/documenten/richtlijn/2019/04/01/rvb-bim-specificatie-v1.1-c

    It was too complex so the industry summarized it into two pages, called the BIM Basis ILS, which became really popular.
    https://www.bimloket.nl/p/321/Downloads

    I'm not too sure, but housing corporations also thought, that's convenenient and thought of the 'Aedes ILS' for their own purposes.

    But some corporations are way more advanced with BIM then others, it's not centrally organized.

    This 'consortium' or 'foundation'. is called bimloket. Don't know what to call it. Tries to centrally organize it. There is a lot of detailed useful information on this website

    https://www.bimloket.nl/main.php

    Nigel
  • NigelNigel

    down here in Aotearoa NZ our government has produced this https://www.procurement.govt.nz/assets/procurement-property/documents/building-information-modelling-construction-procurement.pdf and government departments are trying to implement it, I for my sins have become involved in a steering group within Kāinga Ora (government social housing) to establish how BIM can work for us. One of the greatest challenges is explaining what BIM is to our colleagues. Most people who know a little say things like, it's a 3D model, it's about clash detection and so on. That's the way it is marketed too, everyone falls for a cool fly thru or a nice rendering whereas a bill of quantities or a maintenance programme isn't as 'sexy' I have started translating as much as I can from the PDF @Coen put me onto, bit of familiar govt dept talk but also interesting and helpful.

    Coen
  • CoenCoen
    edited February 2022

    @Nigel

    Very interesting, I just opened the document without reading and tried to search for a mention of the IFC file format. Which in my opinion is essential to an openBIM collaboration. Then tried to globally read it, it seem it's very focused on processes and culture, which is a good thing. :-). A lot of oppurtunity to research how BIM can work in New Zealand from a technical point of view.

    Most people who know a little say things like, it's a 3D model, it's about clash detection and so on. That's the way it is marketed too, everyone falls for a cool fly thru or a nice rendering whereas a bill of quantities or a maintenance programme isn't as 'sexy'

    Sounds really familiar, my personal frustration is with Autodesk and how they mislead people in what BIM is. BIM is also a lot about culture and process. Which the document mainly seem to focus on.

  • duncanduncan

    Personally I don't buy the 'BIM is a process' line. The process is called 'good project management with the best tools for the job'. Very little of what we do with BIM is anything new in terms of process. It's just 'better' but more complex tools.

    Here's how I see it:

    • First building geometry was analogue drawings and other information was analogue documents all coordinated manually.
    • next building geometry was digital drawings and other information was digital documents, all coordinated manually.
    • next building geometry was digital 3d models and other information was digital documents, all coordinated manually.
    • next building geometry & information is digital and with some automated coordination (BIM)

    I've always wanted to make a cartoon of that...

    So that's how I explain it so people understand the progression of digitalization and what it offers. They can understand each step.

    CoenNigelAce
  • CoenCoen

    @duncan

    Personally I don't buy the 'BIM is a process' line. The process is called 'good project management with the best tools for the job'.

    However you want to call it, but digitizing existing assets like a housing corporation does is very different from starting a new project from scratch.
    Often there is no incentive /funding to digitize existing housing. A lot of the time the discussion ends in a Rate of Return discussion.

    duncanNigel
  • NigelNigel

    @Coen @Duncan that is a debate our organisation we will face, with a stock of 67000 housing units, in the first instance is it worth doing anything? and if yes then what level of information & detail do we want/need? and then how do we do that? Still it won't be boring :)

  • CoenCoen
    edited February 2022

    I have a funny example what happens if you don't think about it.
    I used to work at a contractor who did a lot of maintenance work for the biggest housing corporation of Amsterdam. Sometimes this maintenance work was quite severe. The tenant had to move out to completely to renovate the building. This construction company made a Revit model of each of these buildings. This were not simple buildings, they were historic canal houses in the city centre of Amsterdam with a lot of brick detailing on the facades.
    Asking my colleagues why they put so much effort in which there is no obvious benefit for the contractor they replied "Client pays for it ".

    So the client (housing corporation) demanded ownership of the Revit model
    Now fast forward five years later and they were not able to open the Revit models anymore.

    tlangvpajic
  • NigelNigel

    @Coen said:
    I have a funny example what happens if you don't think about it.
    I used to work at a contractor who did a lot of maintenance work for the biggest housing corporation of Amsterdam. Sometimes this maintenance work was quite severe. The tenant had to move out to completely to renovate the building. This construction company made a Revit model of each of these buildings. This were not simple buildings, they were historic canal houses in the city centre of Amsterdam with a lot of brick detailing on the facades.
    Asking my colleagues why they put so much effort in which there is no obvious benefit for the contractor they replied "Client pays for it ".

    So the client (housing corporation) demanded ownership of the Revit model
    Now fast forward five years later and they were not able to open the Revit models anymore.

    I will quote that story in meetings :) thank you @Coen

    Coenduncanvpajic
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