[BlenderBIM & CharonIFC] Construction Project Planning, and Cost Scheduling

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  • edited October 2020

    no California is not opensource... :-( some x thousands a year for support and updates.. and a lot of modules one has to buy each.
    I saw OpenProject has BIM support since 10.4 .. but no cost related things. (but scheduling, tickets, collisions)

  • edited March 2021

    Hi all,
    My company are in the early stages of implementing 4D planning into the business. We are looking at Synchro as the preferred software to use. I wanted to ask you if there are other alternatives which you can recommend, preferably open source.

  • @CarpgianeDS this is a great question, and the unfortunate answer is that I'm not aware of any, and nobody seems to have added anything to the AEC software directory on the wiki. If you want to simply visualise construction tasks without schedule linking as a one-off, then Blender is more than capable if not overqualified for the job. However, when it comes to gantt-chart model linking, I'm not aware of anything. Yet.

    Maybe, you can try your luck a little with OpenProject -as they support project schedules and support BIM, but I don't know if they can link the two meaningfully, generate timelines, visualise sequences, or do the partial model editing (slab splitting, for example) and so on that Synchro can.

    It has been on the roadmap for a little while to start tackling these entities in the BlenderBIM Add-on, as well as been proposed in the Epic Games Megagrant application. I have also been contacted by a firm who does sequencing who wanted to write some code for it, but although the offer was good, no code came out of it.

    So, if nothing else... watch this space?

    duncanCarpgianeDS
  • I just stumbled across CharonIfc "A library to extract information from an IFC file to produce Technical Documentation like Specifications and Bill of Quantities." based on IfcOpenShell, license GNU GPL v3, developer Davide Vescovini. No idea how it works, but might be easy to adapt for blenderBim/Freecad.
    https://launchpad.net/charonifc
    https://launchpad.net/~davide-vescovini

    paulleebitacoviriosvarms
  • edited February 2021

    Also, (Italian language) cost estimate program working on ubuntu, same developer as above:
    https://forum.ubuntu-it.org/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=449475&hilit=preventares
    mentions it being developed in python with libraries gtk (gnome), pysqlite2. The last update from the developer dates from april 2018.
    https://launchpad.net/preventares

  • edited February 2021

    There are now experimental scripts that are able to convert a P6 (Oracle Primavera) XML into an IFC Task tree with some basic metadata like task schedule start / finish times, whether it is a milestone, as well as the name of task. Once in IFC, there is another experimental script which allows you to generate a gantt chart from the IFC data. There is now a super barebones "sequence" module in the BlenderBIM Add-on which will display all the tasks in the file which you can filter. Relevant commits:

    The minimum viable product is a few more features like assigning, assigning, and viewing model element relationships to tasks, and then generating a construction sequence animation from the tasks and workplan. It's relatively straightforward, I believe.

    Here is a highly censored screenshot of a gantt chart generated from IFC with these experimental scripts:

    paulleebrunopostleMeetlattlangbruno_perdigaoCarpgianeDShtlcnn
  • @Moult , would it be possible to read the tasks from the ifc file on import and group collections with the linked elements? and what would the precedence calls look like?

    CarpgianeDS
  • @c4rlosdias the BlenderBIM Add-on now supporting reading tasks from the IFC file on import. The UI is very basic for now and doesn't even support things like work plans yet, but at least is shows whether tasks exists and gives a list of them.

    When you say "group collections with the linked elements" are you asking if it is possible to link model elements to the schedule? If so, the answer is not yet. It is fairly trivial to implement, just takes time :)

    For precedence calls, I assume you're referring to sequences, i.e. the dependencies that say that the slab must be built before the walls. This is not currently handled. Again, fairly trivial (P6 exposes this in an XML tag called "Relationship" and IFC uses "IfcRelSequence"), but currently swamped with work.

    brunopostleCarpgianeDS
  • Thank's @Moult , Sorry for my bad english....

    CarpgianeDS
  • A heads up that Jon Mirtschin has very helpfully provided an IFC2X3 example from his implementation (back in 2013!) - this will be a great resource to make sure that we are all implementing it correctly. I haven't had the chance to look through it yet, but thought I'd share it in case somebody is curious.

    Link here: https://forums.buildingsmart.org/t/logistic-phases-and-time-in-ifc-definitions/2432/16?u=moult

    CarpgianeDSSigmaDimensions
  • Sounds promising! I've had a play around with the new phasing feature in Twinmotion. I think that something similar in Blender Bim or Blender as a separate add on would be quite useful. To begin with it could be used solely as a high level visualisation tool similar to Twinmotion, for tender submissions, concepts etc. and then eventually be developed into something more robust and intuitive.

  • edited February 2021

    Hello everyone,
    I'm starting here and I hope to be able to contribute.

    I made a new post on the FreeCAD forum about the continuity of this WorkBench. Please, I would like to know your opinion. Thanks

    CarpgianeDS
  • @walpa the approach taken here is agnostic to Blender. Therefore, the P6 XML -> IFC conversion code can be reused between the BlenderBIM Add-on and FreeCAD. Similarly, the Gantt chart generation code can also be reused between the BlenderBIM Add-on and FreeCAD. In fact, the code does almost nothing - it reuses the jsgantt-improved web-based gantt chat project's code, and just formats the data in the JSON structure that it expects. So long as you're working with IFC, we can share code.

    iosvarmsCarpgianeDS
  • @Moult
    1- I will refactor the code I made for FC, to make more "agnostic" and more MVD, so that it can be reused. I made a mess trying to learn :)
    2- I started the code to import XML file generated by MSProject and LibreProject, I will stop for now until I finish (1) and resume after following your model. I don't have access to P6, can someone post some XML generated by P6, to compare the two structures?
    3 - taking the opportunity: if an attribute is set to None in a python class, IfcOpenShell.file.create_entity() changes to '$' automatically or it is necessary to code it.
    Thanks

  • @walpa

    1. Awesome! Excited to see where this goes!
    2. Unfortunately, I only have proprietary P6 schedules...
    3. If you don't specify an attribute to create_entity(), it will automatically assume it as null, and represent it as $ in IFC-SPF.
  • @Moult
    1- Notice when available
    3-I have other doubts in IfcOpenShell, I will post in the official forum to not pollute this one.

  • edited February 2021

    @duncan suggested opening this topic to discuss costs within the context of open source.
    We invite everyone to leave their opinions here.
    Here is my little testimony.
    I don't know how budgets and costs are made in other parts of the world, I only know the Brazilian market.
    The model must be the same as in other countries: in large companies, there are usually engineering sectors responsible for budgets, and costs are accompanied by specific ERP's, always with proprietary solutions.
    In companies that are implementing BIM, as far as I know, REVIT/NAVISWORK predominates.
    In some cases of medium-sized companies, budgets are contracted with outsourced professionals/offices.
    In most small businesses, when available, budgets are subject to spreadsheets and cost control is almost always lacking.
    In all the situations I experienced (in large, medium and small companies), cost control is always a controversy ... especially in the day-to-day construction.
    In our AEC industry, there are no OS software solutions for budget and costs.
    I know only 1 free budget software: ORSE (orse.cehop.se.gov.br/) provided by a state agency. It is old, based on MS Access DB, with a steep learning curve and is certainly not geared towards the BIM-5D.
    There are also the SINAPI Tables (https://www.caixa.gov.br/poder-publico/modernizacao-gestao/sinapi/Paginas/default.aspx), which are used as a source of price reference. One way to implement them as a BIM concept was made by Yorik and can be seen at https://youtube.com/watch?v=vBfdmvvfDfE.
    Greetings

  • I am not aware of any construction specific costing software that is free software.

    Here the proprietary standards are tools like CostX, RIBiTwo. Ping @iosvarms - what was the software you used? I'm trying to find the video recording I took of it.

    duncan
  • @walpa your experience in Brazil is universal with little variations. IMO a lot of firms or individuals have bespoke solutions to their estimation, budgeting and costing needs. Also, I think most firms/companies hide their cost information as a competitive advantage during bids/tenders. So there is little incentive to build an open source project costing software. However, for any open source project costing software to be successful/relevant and challenge the AEC industry, it must bring some value to the table. For me, that means the software should have the following features/qualities/capabilities;
    1. It must tie/link measured quantities to geometry (very difficult I guess)
    2. It must have a cost database (very obvious)
    3. It must a link all measured quantities to a standardized measurement document such as NRM
    4. It must be IFC complaint (BIM capability)
    5. It must have estimating functionalities which are linked to the cost database
    6. It must generate BoQ (automated is preferable)
    7. It must have functionalities for interim valuation and final accounts
    I know all the points above are not easy to implement, but are needed to justify the development of an open source project costing software.

    @Moult that would be Vector. Definitely not open :)

    @duncan what I see on the github page of Qex_Studio looks good. Although its not in English but from the snapshots presented, I think manual entry of quantities must be done. Also, it seems to be linked to some sort of work breakdown structure and cost database. I may be wrong, but I don't think it has BIM capabilities.

    SigmaDimensions
  • @iosvarms
    I agree with your statements. I also think that for companies to adopt any solution other than commercial or 'home-made solutions' there must be a productivity gain that is worthwhile and the raw learning process is smooth. I think it is possible for us to do something about it.
    I am studying the IFC model and, as I understand it so far, it implements almost all the items you mentioned, only item 7 that I don't know the translation correspondence to the terms we use in Brazil, so I can't say that already I found this at IFC, if you can explain it better, I appreciate it.
    But I need to understand better:
    1- connection to DB does not seem to be something very simple
    2 - the way to create the composite costs does not seem to be very friendly
    In the end what will really need work is the development of an interface that allows flexibility and productivity.

    @duncam
    for what I saw in Qex_Studio looks like C # + Sqlite
    Greetings

  • edited March 2021

    Qex_Studio is a data base of items and resources from construction industry. I'll write to Luciano for a better description of his software.
    @Goro

  • edited March 2021

    @walpa said:
    . . .
    I am studying the IFC model and, as I understand it so far, it implements almost all the items you mentioned, only item 7 that I don't know the translation correspondence to the terms we use in Brazil, so I can't say that already I found this at IFC, if you can explain it better, I appreciate it.
    But I need to understand better:
    1- connection to DB does not seem to be something very simple
    2 - the way to create the composite costs does not seem to be very friendly
    In the end what will really need work is the development of an interface that allows flexibility and productivity.

    For item 7 (interim valuation and final accounts), these are post contract documents that help in cost control and ensure that BoQ items as specified are carried out. Also, variations/change orders/instructions that affects the overall cost of the project, are captured adequately in interim valuations. Some people use it as a measure of progress by comparing the total certified payments from the interim valuations and the revised contract sum (although, I am not a fan of that). For the Final Accounts, this serves as a settlement document which shows the the amount to be paid to the contractor or amount to be refunded by the contractor at the completion of the project. This is usually a very huge task which involves reconciling all BoQ items with change orders/variations/instructions and can take weeks sometimes months to do. Automating the process would be very good.

    How are you studying IFC? Are your working with EXPRESS, or Coding/programming or looking at bSI schema/documentation (e.g., https://standards.buildingsmart.org/IFC/DEV/IFC4_2/FINAL/HTML/link/annex-e.htm) or you are looking at software implementation such as this one I pulled from bSI (see image below)

    link: https://technical.buildingsmart.org/resources/software-implementations/
    I am not very proficient at coding/programming but I can read code (R and Python) and I have conceptual knowledge of how things work. Let me know how we can work on this together. Are you in Brazil? I am in Nigeria.

  • Ping !!! @Moult Charonifc could be a life saver for 5D-BlenderBim
    @tlang have you tried installing it?

  • @iosvarms sorry, I haven't tried to install as I don't have any linux running at the moment. I've tried to reach out to the developer just now to let him know we're interested in his work.

  • edited March 2021

    @tlang are you using Windows? Looks like there is a way to create an executable file from the "Read me" file at https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~davide-vescovini/charonifc/trunk/view/head:/README.md. Instructions extracted below. But it requires some dependencies to run.

    # PYTHON DEPENDENCIES
    The following Python libraries must be installed in order to run and compile or package the software:
    1. Install WxWidget (to be able to use the UI)
    pip install wxPython
    2. Install Markdown library (https://python-markdown.github.io/reference/)
    pip install markdown
    . . .

    How-to create a windows executable for this module.

    1. Install PyInstaller from PyPI:
      pip install pyinstaller
    2. Go to program’s directory and run:
      pyinstaller charonifc --add-data=charonifclib\locale;charonifclib\locale --add-data=charonifclib\data;charonifclib\data
    3. to get a single executable file:
      pyinstaller charonifc --add-data=charonifclib\locale;charonifclib\locale --add-data=charonifclib\data;charonifclib\data --onefile>

    I will try it later.

  • I've added the tag "costing" to this discussion

  • Hi @iosvarms,
    7 - understood
    Studying the bSI schema / doc in order to apply 4D / 5D in FreeCAD and BlenderBIM. Currently trying to understand the difference between IfcWorkPlan and IfcWorkSchedule, from the UI point of view. If you want to discuss it we can open another thread.
    I'm not a dev, I only know a little bit of python, but I'll try anyway. :)
    I'm in Brazil (with COVID out of control and our president increasingly crazy and irresponsible ...)
    Greetings

    duncan
  • @iosvarms can you help reach out to Charonifc and organise a meetup between the three of us (him, you, me) + anybody else wanting to join in, to discuss how integration would work?

    carlopav
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